Transcript of S18E02 – JAANA SINIPURO

Molly Schwartz: Welcome to the MyData podcast. I’m Molly Schwartz, your Host and the Convener of the MyData Hub in New York City. And right now, I am recording from the Metropolitan New York Library Council, so thanks for providing the studio. MyData is a vision and it’s also a series of principles and a movement and it is also a conference. And the 2018 MyData Conference will be taking place at the end of August in Helsinki. You can find more about it at

Molly Schwartz: MyData is committed to developing an awareness of we, as individuals, can take over the data that describes us and have more control over it. In every episode of the MyData podcast, we talk to a guest about their experience with personal data and privacy. But before we get to today’s guest, here’s Antti Poikola’s MyData Minute.

Antti Poikola: Hi, I’m Antti Poikola, the Program Leader of MyData 2018 Conference. This is MyData Minute, welcome. MyData is a global movement and conference around humans-centric personnel data. The core idea is that we, you and I, should have an easy way to see where data about us goes, specify who can use it, and alter these decisions over time.

Antti Poikola: The slogan of the movement is, “Make it Happen, Make it Right.” The better practices around personal data management should become sustainable from business perspective and widely adopted, Make it Happen. At the same time, they should be distinctively different and better from the data economy what we know today. They should be sustainable from societal and individual perspectives, Make it Right.

Antti Poikola: Failing to Make it Happen would mean that some alternatives, perhaps less human-friendly data practices continue to dominate the digital economy. Failing to Make it Right, on the other hand, would mean that we had all the best intentions, we managed to reach wide adoption but something went wrong. The social impact was not what we wanted. Maybe personal data becomes technically very easy to move around but for some other reasons, people don’t have the real free choice.

Antti Poikola: MyData community brings together the builders like technologies and businesses, as well as the policymakers, NGOs, and privacy advocates who steer the development. Together, we can Make it Happen and Make it Right. Now, please enjoy the rest of the episode of the MyData podcast.

Molly Schwartz: Our guest today is Jaana Sinipuro. Jaana is a Project Director at The Digital Health HUB at Sitra, a Finnish innovation fund. She’s been working to improve healthcare systems in Finland and they’re trying to do that by building better databases. Sitra is also a partner, helping put on the MyData Conference so thanks to them for that. How are you doing today, Jaana?

Jaana Sinipuro: I’m feeling great, thank you.

Molly Schwartz: Tell me a little bit about Sitra, what kind of an organization is it and how is it involved in the whole personal data management field?

Jaana Sinipuro: Actually, we are a government innovation agency. We call ourselves a think-and-do-tank. We were a gift from the Finnish parliament to the Finnish society. So, we are working for innovations of the government sector to promote the well-being of the people. And maybe for the last 50 years of organization, we are working with the circular economy but also different approach that’s relating to data. I think for the last five years, we’ve been working with the different initiatives on data, better use of data, both public sector data, governmental data, and now we are working more a more with the MyData, based on a personal consent.

Molly Schwartz: So I know that you’re working a project called IHAN right now. But first I want to go back a little bit and talk about the project that you’re working on before this, something called Isaacus I think, yes?

Jaana Sinipuro: Yeah. That’s right.

Molly Schwartz: And if I understand correctly, this was a project to build a single database for all of the health data, for everyone living in Finland. What’s happening with that project right now?

Jaana Sinipuro: Actually, not a single database. More like a one-stop-shop for granting access to different data sources. So we were working with the ministry and they were doing the secondary law reform on legislation for better use of the data resources and that proposal, the new legislation is in the parliament at the moment. So we hope that that will be in effect this year.

Jaana Sinipuro: So the aim for this legislation is to combine different register holders and the governmental data for health and wellbeing into the so that one clink or authority grants access and gives authorization to use the data whenever the use of data is purposeful. So our goal was to promote research development and innovations with this legislation, both academic research and innovations.

Jaana Sinipuro: So Sitra was preparing the operating model for this Digital Health HUB or one-stop-shop. Then collecting data from different data sources and offering that through one-stop-shop. And we were backed up by the new legislation saying that there’s a government authority who grants access to different data sources and gives permits.

Molly Schwartz: Okay, so it sounds like you’re working with a lot of different organizations and a lot of different databases. What were some of the major challenges in putting together a one-stop-shop for health data?

Jaana Sinipuro: Yes. We were working with Statistics Finland with the [inaudible 00:06:01] of Finland, a huge governmental agencies all having to do with different cultures and different … a long history of over 100 years. So I think the cultural issues are always how to create a streamline process and smooth method of working together, like the big government agencies working together for a common goal. That’s quite specific.

Jaana Sinipuro: And then there were many university hospitals, THL, the National Welfare Institute, National Archive, population registrar for Finland. So there’s a good history of storing data, and now we are moving maybe more like open data and opening up data and making it more easily available for research.

Molly Schwartz: Yeah. Let’s talk a little bit about the concept of open data and also the secondary reuse of data, so taking data that was originally collected for one purpose and using it for something else. What are some of the laws around that when it comes to health data? Like I would imagine that’s particularly difficult.

Jaana Sinipuro: Yes, of course, when it’s primary. We are reforming the you call it primary use of healthcare data. That’s the whole social and welfare system in Finland is in turmoil or a bit free form is going on. And there are many laws they are changing at the moment. But when you look at the secondary use of data, then we are counting. It’s aggregative data, it’s statistical registry data, and it’s anonymous data, all [inaudible 00:07:46] data.

Jaana Sinipuro: So the idea is that we will create a secure data environment where you can use personal data without any risk of actually giving away the data gathered from the Finish citizens or from the primary use and clinical care of the society.

Molly Schwartz: And then this would apply to everyone living in Finland. I’m curious what is the goal of having this kind of region-wide one-stop-shop, and would people who have had healthcare services in Finland still be able to use it if they were living in France or somewhere else?

Jaana Sinipuro: The welfare model in Finland or Scandinavian countries is pretty much [inaudible 00:08:30]. So we think that all data that’s coming from the governmental services is actually something, it’s a data reserve that everyone should benefit from. It doesn’t matter if it’s the citizens living in Finland or if it’s foreign researchers doing research and who need the data.

Jaana Sinipuro: But we are like doing [inaudible 00:08:56] for most of our [inaudible 00:08:57] and we are doing a large collaboration for bio-banking environment. So we think that for precision medicine to be actually true, we need to have many data sources available for clinical research, for research, and then return that data back to the operations.

Jaana Sinipuro: So we think that first, you need to be able to collect all possible data to make a good research and then return that data back to the in form of better services somewhere, affecting services and better health for the citizens. So actually, it’s putting some value from the data back to the citizens but also opening up data for the research and innovations.

Jaana Sinipuro: And through this one-stop-shop, everyone can turn if the use of data is purposeful, if it’s a good ethical reason of doing the research, everyone can access the data.

Molly Schwartz: Wow, yeah. So anybody would be able to log on and kind of download machine-readable data sets, I guess.

Jaana Sinipuro: After a permit.

Molly Schwartz: After a permit.

Jaana Sinipuro: From the medical authority, yeah.

Molly Schwartz: Got it. So someone would be evaluating whether it’s an ethical use of the data.

Jaana Sinipuro: Yes. It would be a government agency who’s looking after that data usage is for the good. So the permits will be centralized for one permit authority. That’s going to be a government agency.

Molly Schwartz: Oh, and I was wondering also to create something like Isaacus, did that involve creating some kind of a standard data protocol so people all had to be using the same data standard so that all the data would work with each other? Where you involved in that?

Jaana Sinipuro: There are for archiving and actually all … from the primary use of data, all data is stored and transferred to counter archive. So actually, there’s a standard way of gathering data both from the private sector and public sector organizations. And of course, that’s one way of using clinical data, data coming from the EMR systems and prescription data and putting that in the same format into combined data sets.

Jaana Sinipuro: And then we are creating like metadata catalogs about the data availability that we will open. So yes, to some extent we’ve been using the existing standards to ensure that there will be interoperability between and it’s easier to combine the different data sets, yes.

Jaana Sinipuro: In this whole project, I think it’s very important that we maintain the trust. So when we make a survey about willingness of people to allow the use of the health data, government agencies and authorities were quite highly trusted by the citizens. So that’s why we think it’s very important to combine the government agencies authorities and then this, open up the data for good usage. But it’s quite a challenge to balance between control and then opening up possibilities.

Jaana Sinipuro: But the key thing is to maintain trust on there and also, this positiveness for research the [Fins 00:12:26] are now feeling. There’s a very positive attitude for medical research, maybe more for academic research but also to pharma research.

Molly Schwartz: Do you think that this kind of a project could work somewhere where there wasn’t such high levels of trust in government in elected officials and also in research?

Jaana Sinipuro: I think it’s also quite unique. We know that some countries have tested or tried out doing the same things but there was this issue of trust. And then maybe some countries have focused more on creating loose networks of organizations to combine the data and better serve researchers. But I think there’s both a strong commitment from the government, government agencies and ministry to align the legislation, and then this Finish society as a whole. That’s a very good base for doing something that could be a disaster as well. So far so good.

Molly Schwartz: And so speaking expanding, these ideas expanding beyond Finland, I understand now that you’re working on a system called IHAN which would basically work for data exchange like IBAN works for banking and for credit cards. So like today you can go and take a credit card from any bank and go to a store that has an IBAN system and you can swipe it and your money will still transfer even though you’re at any store on the street and you could be using any bank. They have a common protocol so always your money will work when you swipe your credit card. And you’re looking to develop something that works like that for data exchange on an international level. To me, that’s really ambitious but also very exciting. Can you tell me a little bit about the state of that project?

Jaana Sinipuro: Yeah. We actually started in February this year just gathering the team. And we are about 15 people who hope to create a movement for this initiative called human-driven data economy. So we think it’s a very logical extension to Isaacus project. First, you have the government registries and then you make an open database on those registries. But if you want to create, if you want to combine your genomic information, your lifestyle information, environmental information, your whole …

Jaana Sinipuro: … environmental information. Your whole wellbeing kind of data, it needs to be with a consent from an individual, from the persons. So that’s why we are now working with this [IHAN 00:15:14] or [inaudible 00:15:15] driven data economy and revolution to create both a consenting solution and authorization solution and then somehow connecting the dots between service providers, data, from service providers to after service providers with the permit from the individuals.

Jaana Sinipuro: All current figures, three and a half years project is all about creating … trying to do an EU-wide roadmap and use the GDPR, the momentum that’s GDPR is actually doing for the data portability.

Molly Schwartz: Right, yes. So this will be really taking advantage of the data portability, a piece of GDPR. What are your thoughts about GDPR? I know it just went into effect at the end of May. How has that been going? What are the reactions like in Finland? Does this affect the work that you’re doing?

Jaana Sinipuro: Yeah. I think they see it as a great opportunity. We were cheering the day when the GDPR came in effect. But most companies maybe see it as burden and are afraid of the, yeah, the fines or sanctions that you have. But actually, I could be seen as an opportunity as well. So we think that perhaps it’s time for Europe to create a GDPR version two. And to make this data portability and transfer of data’s smooth as possible, but at the same time, we are thinking that maybe this could be an opportunity to Europe to show a lead.

Jaana Sinipuro: Like in the States, it’s very much the [inaudible 00:17:03] companies who are siloing and controlling data. In China, it’s the government. So if we can kind of define the European welfare state of data and promote that, and also create a mechanism or make the GDPR to be beneficial both for individuals and companies, then maybe there a time for something new.

Molly Schwartz: Do you think since this system would be based on data exchange and so much personal data right now does flow through the GAFA, through these large tech companies? Will you need to be working with them to make the system work?

Jaana Sinipuro: Absolutely, we should or we should maybe find those companies … the big companies who see that actually, the bigger value comes from sharing the data. But they are not … those companies who are more like a little bit losing the battle of storing data, operating just on their own data and making negotiations to get access to other organizations’ data. So we hope that we could collaborate with some large companies and also yeah, large companies who believe that maybe a fear of sustainable data economy is the thing that they want to work for.

Jaana Sinipuro: So at the same way like there’s a fair trade labels for groceries, so maybe there could be a fair trade or fair data labels for those companies who apply a certain MyData principles or IAM principles and other transparent on how they are using the data from the individuals

Molly Schwartz: Right. So IHAN would suggest that there’s a certain level of it’s been evaluated. You get a badge that you kind of IHAN approved and then people know that there’re certain principles about data management that are being taken into account.

Jaana Sinipuro: Yeah. So there will be a bunch of hopefully, a bunch of service providers who are like operating on very sustainable data.

Molly Schwartz: Yeah.

Jaana Sinipuro: And in a more transparent way.

Molly Schwartz: How would you describe some of the IHAN principles for proper data management? What are principles that you all are advocating for?

Jaana Sinipuro: All data transfers should be based on the authorization from individuals. And of course, we are planning to create kind of identity world, a global identifier, decentralized identifier systems so that you can manage all your different passwords and your identities scattered across different systems. So this user agreement or user-initiated authorization to use data for new services, that’s one of the key methods. But you need to be able to log how the data has been used.

Jaana Sinipuro: So one of the principles we need to create and are hoping that companies will commit to is the kind of meta-databased log system that tells it’s we are planning to use blockchain for storing of that log and creating and keeping that log. So it’s logging which service provider at what time points, for what purpose, with whose consent used the data and in what way. So kind of transparent audit trail for all used cases of data.

Jaana Sinipuro: So when user gives or individual gives consent or denies, recalls the consent, then this data usage will not be appropriate anymore. So there are many different layers, technical layers we need to solve but then there’s this generic principles like believing in user, user-driven control of data. Those principles are very close. We’ve been working together with MyData alliance to kind of streamline our idea to their principles.

Molly Schwartz: Right. I want to go back. You mentioned that there’s a centralized ID system in Finland and in Estonia. So basically, the government gives everybody one ID number and through that you have the centralized ID. And then they develop these open standards that lets the data be exchanged. What are some ideas that you all have to have a more distributed identity system? How would that work?

Jaana Sinipuro: It’s going to be tricky. It’s going to be, but I think there are many projects that are partially working to solve this issue of like having biometrical in your passport, biometrical identification methods, combining that to traditional ones, your passports and IDs different systems. And I think there are many like technical highlights in different areas already going on. But maybe the idea is to go through all existing relating projects and then we are working together with Change [Analic 00:22:46] to create like a EU first version of kind of soft standard for this, how this different pieces of the puzzle and identification management with chain authorization and a login systems, smart contracting system, how we take those different pieces into the one concept and create a blueprint for this global solution [inaudible 00:23:13] kind of protocol.

Molly Schwartz: Yeah. Yeah, it sounds incredibly complicated but especially for me, coming from the U.S., it’s a really interesting concept because obviously, we have no personal ID number and I don’t see that being something that ever happens here. And a lot of data services, especially for individuals relies on a way to kind of correlate things around you as an individual. So it’s really interesting questions and I’ll be curious to see how it goes.

Molly Schwartz: I want to return to this idea about the MyData alliance because some people might be familiar kind of with MyData as a concept that it provides ways and consent mechanisms for individuals to have more control over their data. But it started as a research project. It started at the Helsinki Institute for Information Technology but it’s grown now. So what is the MyData alliance and who are some of the organizations that are involved in it?

Jaana Sinipuro: Actually, the Finish Minister for [Traffication 00:24:10] has been very active in promoting this initiative. People from Alta University, all main ICT companies from Finland are very much involved in this Finish alliance. And they are doing different tests and pilots, quite large pilot projects in different areas like technical test.

Jaana Sinipuro: But then there’s a very active group like [inaudible 00:24:40] and some other people who have been like the pioneers in this thinking. And then I think that we are working very much with the Estonian alliance as well. So it’s very close to us, a small but very active group of people. And I think it’s good that there’s also the state ministry is working with the alliance, is an acting member of the alliance. So there’s folks, governmental agencies, researchers, companies working on this.

Molly Schwartz: It’s funny, because I think sometimes it seems unusual to have all these different kinds of organizations coming together, people from research, people from government, people from companies also work to develop the standard. But the more I’ve read about how standards have been developed in the past, a lot of times that’s how it happens especially with things that are somewhat digital. So if you look at like how people set the standards for mobile telephone communications and stuff like that, a lot of times to have such a society-wide change you have to bring together a lot of parties. Who are some of the people who you’re excited to see speak or excited to talk with at the conference? What are some of the projects people are working on that you’re the most intrigued in right now?

Jaana Sinipuro: It just actually, I haven’t attended this conference before. I know the people from the local community before and work with them but this is my first time in a conference. So it’s very much just a getting the overall feeling and just a change to meet the top people like I’m trusting on other people’s invitations, I’m trusting on those who have invited the top speakers and then looking at them, just meeting them and then I then discuss with them.

Molly Schwartz: Yeah, it’s always nice to kind of be able to put a face to people who have been working on stuff and hear what’s going on. I am wondering, working on something like IHAN where it has such potential to be really affecting people in their everyday lives, do you ever have moment in your life when you’re like, “Man, this is something that it would really be helpful for me to have access to MyData or have access to something like IHAN.” Do you ever think things like that?

Jaana Sinipuro: Yeah, there are, of course, there are many services that could be more easily done. Someone could do those services for me. But then, on the other hand, I think we are so tied to this thinking that it’s someone else who decides over my data. So it has been very difficult to imagine what kind of services this could open and what my like my future, how it would look then if I can just like combining … The one idea what we’ve been talking about has been the insurance data.

Jaana Sinipuro: And of course, if you have your dog, and if you have your houses, your family, your … Well, my boss has even boats and something, and then combine, you’re always asked for kind of tenders from different companies and it’s very burdensome. So if you could kind of move your data, just ask one company to send your data and move that to the other company and say that there’s a service broker who says that actually this is your total set of your properties and this is your insurance space and asks for next company to give nice and automated proposal. So maybe that kind of services we could easily been projects that to facilitate your everyday tasks, maybe that’s something that could happen.

Jaana Sinipuro: And of course, there are may private genome tests also in the markets. And at the moment, it’s quite difficult to on the one hand, [inaudible 00:28:53] first, maybe they don’t trust on those commercial tests. But on the other hand, it’s quite difficult to take that data with you and combine it to your other wellbeing and have their data. So maybe that data from your devices, your lifestyle data, that would be good.

Jaana Sinipuro: And also, when I’m going to groceries stores, if I have some medication, so it would be nice to have a shopping list based on my data and recommended, and this is the food you should avoid and this is what you should eat and those kind of services, like simple everyday services. But it’s something that we are just starting with, Judy, imagine.

Molly Schwartz: Definitely, yeah. These are kinds of systems that we don’t have yet. And I’m really interested in that example about the insurance because I would imagine some people, you do want your … I mean, dealing with insurance is annoying and you want the process to be as simple as possible. But maybe one solution would be then for all your different kinds of insurance, you use one company. But instead, you’re …

Molly Schwartz: All your different kinds of insurance you use one company, but instead you’re saying you can still use different insurance companies based on which one would be best for your house versus other health insurance, whatnot. But they would be able to communicate your data between them or exchange your data between them based on consent mechanisms that you had set up in advance.

Jaana Sinipuro: Yes.

Molly Schwartz: You had mentioned a little bit earlier in the conversation, I think it was when we were talking about … I don’t remember if it was identity, but about how things are done differently in the United States and things are differently in China. I read a little bit that you had a bit of a background in Far East Asian studies. Are you at all paying attention now with your current work to what’s going on in China or in other countries, or are you mostly focusing on Finland still?

Jaana Sinipuro: Mostly focusing on EU. I’m trying to create an EU roadmap, but I actually had, just two days ago, I had a meeting with five reporters from Chinese speaking … like Taiwan, Singapore, and China. Of course, we were talking a lot about this well-being data and the Isaacus project, but then we were also discussing about this global identity, identity management system. So, in a way, like Estonians have the e-citizen concept or solution already so that everyone from all over the world here can at [life 00:31:38] or e-citizenship in Estonia and then start a company there. And then similar things are happening in Finland.

Jaana Sinipuro: So, maybe if we could create a global identification system, maybe it would be easier for Chinese companies, as well, to come or Chinese people to travel across countries or so. Of course, it’s a very … I wouldn’t dare to dream about the culture in China and the government role in China, and then joking about human-driven data economy. I think from the technology point of view, maybe there might be some application areas.

Jaana Sinipuro: They were interested about … I think they were, in the last two days, this group of reporters visited like 20 companies, healthcare companies and organizations in Finland. I think there’s from this Isaacus, or healthcare point of view, similar problems are emerging even in Asia, like aging people and this disease burden will change when the level of income is increasing the same disease burden is also effecting there … So, I don’t know. Maybe. Maybe more and more these two cultures are cooperating.

Jaana Sinipuro: And of course, we will have quite much collaboration with Japan.

Molly Schwartz: In what way? What are you doing with Japan?

Jaana Sinipuro: Right now we are [inaudible 00:33:30] working on world circular economy forum that would be organized in Japan in October. It’s going to be a huge global event for the circular economy and may make the global awareness formats. And then we’ve had some research projects and they’ve been very interested in local legislation. This legislative [inaudible 00:33:53] we are now doing for the secondary use of information, because there are lots of elderly people and they are similar problems like in Finland, so it would be logical to collaborate.

Molly Schwartz: Right. So with the circular economy, the idea is that that’s developing ways that resources can be reused. Resources like data, I guess, also. So, what are some of the legislative changes that are happening right now in Finland about the reuse of data? Are you all involved in trying to effect how that happens or … ?

Jaana Sinipuro: There are some structural changes, like going from small organizations to bigger organizations. The whole funding is changing so there are legislation that’s affecting people’s everyday life. Like for the last 10 years, they have been trying to do that reform and then essential for the research maybe more for the second reuse of research purposes, there are, there’s this, genomal biobanking law and reform. But also we are opening up the [inaudible 00:35:04] data. Uber was trying to do some business in Finland, but that wasn’t possible. Now we are changing the legislation for that kind of businesses.

Jaana Sinipuro: So, there are many different … I would say that almost every ministry is working with some legislative reforms affecting our lives.

Molly Schwartz: Yeah. Yeah. Wait. So, Uber is going to be able to operate in Finland now? Is that … ?

Jaana Sinipuro: Yeah. Yeah.

Molly Schwartz: Oh, I didn’t know that. Has there been a lot of interest from other countries in the work that you’re doing? Especially within the kind of the healthcare and tech journalism world. What are people from other places .. What do they seem the most interested in?

Jaana Sinipuro: I think they … This our approach that we are working both on the government side, companies and research. There’s this kind of national agenda and different ministries are working together to make this one-stop shop happen. That’s quite unique compared to other companies. Maybe they are trying to create same things, but in a smaller scale and with looser networks, as I said. What we found in the Isaacus project, they were actually the researcher services and the infrastructure for research, but then we were funding also big data, data lake solutions in the large hospital regions. That offers and opens up a whole new future for the research and use of different analytical tools. That was also one big source of interest, how we could actually implement and make production-level data lake for second largest hospital region in Europe.

Jaana Sinipuro: We visited Great Britain, we visited Denmark, like other Scandinavian countries. They all have similar initiatives, but maybe they’re a little bit behind still. So, I really hope that we will get that act on secondary use through the Parliament this summer.

Molly Schwartz: And a data lake would be like a lot of hospitals pooling their data into one source, one place?

Jaana Sinipuro: Yeah. It’s still raw data, kind of un-homogenized data, but it will be a near real-time data coming from imaging that stems from chemical systems, biological data, samples. So, it’s going to be a huge data pool, but the research methods will be completely different again. But you can, with the new technologies, you can also dive into the data and try to discover patents and do a lot with the data. So, it’s inspiring. We started from register data and trying to make the stream-line process on how to get access direct to said data, and then suddenly we were very deep into the new technologies and this near real-time data processing systems. And I think the whole project was wow. There are many companies … They actually made a quality certification for this data lake now. It’s CE Certified Solution database in English.

Jaana Sinipuro: So, and that’s the first one in the Nordics. Many things I couldn’t imagine when I started this project two and a half years ago happened underway. I think there’s been an interest, both from pharma companies, from other government agencies to come and visit us. We have the continuous round tables with different countries. Also people from Australia have attended. So, it’s very nice to continue the discussion.

Molly Schwartz: Will you or other members of Sitra be at the MyData conference at the end of August?

Jaana Sinipuro: Yes, actually. We are going to be. And then we are also looking for some innovative people to join our pre-adventure. Nice boat trip just at the Helsinki sea front. So, we are looking … We are using this opportunity, so basically at least half of my team will be there and we will be presenting and meeting a lot of people. So, we are very happy to collaborate on this latest project idea we have.

Molly Schwartz: What is this … The boat trip? A MyData boat trip? When is this happening?

Jaana Sinipuro: It’s a day before the actual conference, so I think it’s the 27th.

Molly Schwartz: The 27th of August? Great. So, it’s like a satellite pre-event, something like that?

Jaana Sinipuro: Yeah. It’s a pre-event. And it’s about … It’s not a huge boat going between hundreds of [inaudible 00:40:13] between Finland and Sweden. It’s about 40 persons. But yeah, we are soon sending out the invitations, so if … There’s a email called So, you can, if you’re interested in hearing more about Ihan, you can. You, yourself, ready to watch whale can come to Finland.

Molly Schwartz: Excellent. I will be there for the conference, so I plan to be on that boat.

Jaana Sinipuro: Okay. Good.

Molly Schwartz: I’ll put it on my calendar.

Jaana Sinipuro: It’s going to be beautiful in August because it’s still very light nights and it’s … Yeah, it’s perfect. It’s very beautiful outside Helsinki.

Molly Schwartz: Well, thanks so much for taking the time to answer all of these questions. It’s fascinating to learn about what you all are doing in the field of health data in Finland and I look forward to hearing more at the conference and potentially on the boat. Can you tell me where people who are interested in finding more can find information about your work? You mentioned there’s That’s I-H-A-N at sitra dot F-I as an email address? Is there anywhere else that people should look?

Jaana Sinipuro: That’s the best place to start. The website you mentioned, and then also if there’s anything you want to ask them, it’s just to drop a mail to We are happy to answer.

Molly Schwartz: Great. Is there anything else that you would like to add that you feel like we haven’t talked about but you would like to?

Jaana Sinipuro: It’s going to be interesting after six months or one year to see how far we got in this Ihan project. It’s going to be a huge challenge, but also very inspiring project.

Molly Schwartz: Definitely. Yeah, you can come back and listen. Well, thank you so much Jaana.

Jaana Sinipuro: Thank you.

Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the MyData podcast. The MyData conference takes place in Helsinki, Finland, August 29th-31st, 2018. Find out more on this year’s conference website at The show notes and video versions of this podcast are available on the MyData Global Network website at You can contact us via email at or on Twitter at @mydataorg. We thank the Metropolitan New York Library Council for letting us record in their studio at 599 11th Avenue in New York City. Music is by David [inaudible 00:42:45] music and [inaudible 00:42:46]. This podcast is copyright MyData2018. The MyData podcast was produced by me [inaudible 00:42:53]. The host was Molly [Schwartz 00:42:55]. Video and audio are available for redistribution under creative commons attribution non-commercial license version 4.0 international. See you next time.